NYU Professor Scott Galloway on Our Current Gender Divide—and How to Come Together

Of all the divides our society faces, one of the most startling is the gulf between women and men. Headlines about the gender gap abound (we even read an article on the "fitness gender gap" this week). The chasm is severe and has only been exacerbated by the recent election. 

We've been curious to understand the deeper issues—as nuanced as they are—underlying this gulf. We reached out to Scott Galloway, an author, speaker, and professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business, who's been outspoken on the topic, positing that one crux of issue is how we've gotten used to "a framework of talking about people through the lens of their identity," as he says. In addition, he believes young men are flailing, resulting in grave consequences for everyone.

We asked Galloway to dig in deeper and offer his thesis on what to know and what we can do as a society to move toward healing. "There's a lot we can do," he tells The Sunday Paper, "and one is acknowledging the issue."

A CONVERSATION WITH SCOTT GALLOWAY

We've been eager to make sense of the gender divide our country faces. What do you believe is behind it? And how should we be looking at it?

We're in an era where identity politics are strong. We see this even with marketing. Everyone has thought demographics were destiny, so even in the way that companies target people, they target them by their age, race, and gender. And if you look at the election, we basically sliced and diced the data by identity. We've gotten used to this framework of talking about people through the lens of their identity, and the identity has seemed to become more tribal. So, we have a nation comfortable with identity politics, running stories and trying to explain things through the lens of identity. Some of it has resulted in a coarse conversation—and social media loves coarseness, rage, and conflict.

The most logical way to identify someone is usually gender—men versus women. If you look at women, no group has ascended faster in the last 30 years. More women are seeking tertiary education than men globally. Twice as many women have been elected to some form of parliament in the last 30 years. And domestically, no group has fallen further, faster than young men. Men are four times as likely to kill themselves, three times more likely to be addicted, and 12 times more likely to be incarcerated. A lot of men and their families feel this, and it has created this rage and a bit of a war between the sexes.

It can be frightening to think there is such a gulf between people, especially when things are as charged as they are. Many men don't feel seen. Many women feel their bodies and essential rights are being threatened. It is all so nuanced and unsettling. So, where do we go from here? Do you believe there's a direction we can turn to heal?

The first thing is acknowledging it's not an us-versus-them [situation]. Empathy is not a zero-sum game. Civil rights didn't hurt white people. Gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage. So, just acknowledging that young men are struggling and that we should have empathy for them does not mean you're anti-women. Unfortunately, a few years ago, a lot of the people who initially entered this void to talk about this problem [perpetuated] thinly veiled misogyny. A lot of the voices that entered the manosphere, if you will, were about treating women like property and 'take my crypto course so you can buy a Lamborghini.' It wasn't a productive conversation. And unfortunately, those voices crowded out a more productive conversation.

But I would say we are starting to heal. I have found that most of my emails on this topic are not from young men; they're from mothers. If you look at the election, for example, the group that swung most violently towards Trump relative to the 2020 election was people under 30. People under the age of 40 are 24 percent less wealthy than they were 40 years ago, and people over the age of 70 or 72 percent wealthier. So, for the first time in America's history, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at 30, and specifically, young men have really fallen fast. There will be three female college grads for every two male college grads in the next year. More single women own homes than men. Women in urban areas under the age of 30 are making more money. So we have to say, 'Let's celebrate that. That's a great thing that women have made progress.' And at the same time, we can have empathy for young men who are economically flailing.

People are coming to the recognition that America and women can't flourish if men are floundering. So, I think we are having a more productive conversation, but there's all these knock-on effects from young men struggling.

Tell us more about the knock-on effects.

One example: three out of four women say economic viability is key to a mate; for men, it's only one in three. If women had a tough time getting a job because they've been outsourced overseas, men don't really care in terms of whether they're attracted to women, but women do care. So, you see a decline in birth rates and dating. One in three men has a relationship under 30, but two in three women have a relationship. The reason why women are dating older is because they want more economically and emotionally viable men. There's a bunch of weird things happening, but we don't like to talk about it because the general gestalt is that you will be shamed if you acknowledge anything that might come across as arguing that women aren't always the victims and men are the predators.

So, there's this gap where people don't want to talk about the knock-on effects, and unfortunately, the conversation on the far right tells men that masculinity is to be coarse and cruel, tough and mean, and provocative. That's not productive. At the same time, on the far left, their vision of masculinity is that men should act more like women. That's not a productive conversation, either.

Let's head back to what you believe can help. Where should we put our energy?

Again, it is acknowledging the issue. If you're a 19-year-old male, despite my privilege and the fact that men had a 2000-year head start, that doesn't do anything to make [the 19-year-old male] feel better. Say you walk into a morgue where there are five people who've died by suicide and four of them are men. I would argue that if you walked into a morgue and four or five people who died by suicide belonged to any one special interest group, there'd be a lot more empathy and programs and resources. So, the healing is acknowledging there's an issue here and recognizing it's not a zero-sum game. It's about acknowledging that if we lift up men, it'll help women.

Now, let's talk specifically about programs. There's a lot we can do. One, I believe boys should have a redshirt year. We should start boys in kindergarten at six, not five. Biologically, the prefrontal cortex of boys is 12 to 18 months behind that of girls, and it only catches up once they're in their mid-20s. The education system is highly biased against boys. Seventy to 80 percent of primary school teachers are women. A boy is twice as likely to be suspended for the same behavior as a girl; a black boy is five times as likely. So, we need more male [figures] in school. We also need to create an expectation that if you're a successful man, you're expected to get involved in the life of a young man who doesn't have a male role model. When boys really come off the tracks, it's when they lose a male role model. The research shows that while boys are physically stronger, girls are emotionally and mentally much stronger. So, starting them a year late, having more men in primary schools, and putting some onus on men that if we want better men, we need to be better men and get more involved in their lives.

We also need more economic programs that lift young people. I would like to do what Portugal is doing and have a tax holiday for anyone between 20 and 30. We could restore our tax policies so the tax breaks don't just go to the wealthy. Our nation's two biggest tax deductions are mortgage interests and capital gains. Well, who owns stocks and homes? People my age. Returning some of the prosperity to young people is hugely important. It will help level up young men who've been on the wrong side of economic shifts. Because for the majority of the jobs, there used to be a path to the middle class for men who weren't apt to go to college, and now a lot of those jobs have been shipped overseas. And the real mendacious factor is that the brightest people in the world, who are the most well-resourced and work for the most impressive companies, are engaged in what I call an addiction economy. That is, unfortunately, where young people, specifically young men, are being convinced that they can have a facsimile of life on a screen; where you don't need friends because you have Reddit and Discord, you don't need to get a job because you have stocks in Crypto and Coinbase, and you don't need to try to find a romantic partner because have you have [online] porn.

So overall, we need more men involved in their lives, more economic programs, more recognition that boys mature later, and a recognition that empathy is not a zero-sum game. There's a lot we can do, and I think we're finally having a productive conversation about it—a conversation that I would argue has been inspired by mothers. 

Scott Galloway is a professor at NYU's Stern School of Business, where he teaches brand strategy and digital marketing. A serial entrepreneur, he has founded nine firms, and is also the host of the podcasts "Prof G" and "Pivot." You can read more of his work in his weekly newsletter, No Mercy / No Malice.